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Post by Thia Halmades on Mar 17, 2014 14:02:02 GMT
The question becomes, then, how would you fix that? I agree, the nature of the bell curve is that the general target falls between 8-13 for most rolls, with the extremes being very challenging; most games I run require those higher end challenges to keep powers from being OP; Persona has some skills that are hard set at (whatever) so no matter what level the player is, the challenge doesn't move. However, when you DO poison someone with a massive DOT on 9-, the effect is well worth it. The player clearly feels that way because the risk/reward pays off enough he's willing to throw that power on a regular basis, despite that it's expensive AND only has a 25% chance or so to affect the target.
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Post by CRTaylor on Mar 17, 2014 18:11:57 GMT
Yeah, Summons/Followers, etc run into these problems. If your follower is a housecat, its like 1 point, but having 2 housecats is 6 points! Having a dragon follower is like 75 points, but having 2 dragons is only 80. Seems like doubling should cost 1/10th the creature's value each doubling or something, so its scaled based on the power of the creature. I mean 2 liches is worth more than 5 points, but 2 goblins is hardly worth the hassle.
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Post by Chris Goodwin on Mar 17, 2014 20:14:04 GMT
Yeah, if something costs less than 5 points, and I want two of them, I'm going to just buy another one. I kind of have a personal house rule that if it costs less than 5 points, then keep buying more of them until you hit that 5-point mark, then +5 for double whatever that is. So 5 points for 5 house cats, 10 points for 10, 15 points for 20. (Social Limitation: Cat Lady is optional though highly recommended at this point.)
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kravenkor
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"We're making a better world; all of them. Better worlds."
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Post by kravenkor on Mar 17, 2014 21:27:23 GMT
Yeah, if something costs less than 5 points, and I want two of them, I'm going to just buy another one. I kind of have a personal house rule that if it costs less than 5 points, then keep buying more of them until you hit that 5-point mark, then +5 for double whatever that is. So 5 points for 5 house cats, 10 points for 10, 15 points for 20. (Social Limitation: Cat Lady is optional though highly recommended at this point.) [Homeless Person Translator]"I have a horrible brain disease; please give me a cat."[/homeless person translator.]
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Post by Tasha on Mar 17, 2014 23:47:46 GMT
The question becomes, then, how would you fix that? I agree, the nature of the bell curve is that the general target falls between 8-13 for most rolls, with the extremes being very challenging; most games I run require those higher end challenges to keep powers from being OP; Persona has some skills that are hard set at (whatever) so no matter what level the player is, the challenge doesn't move. However, when you DO poison someone with a massive DOT on 9-, the effect is well worth it. The player clearly feels that way because the risk/reward pays off enough he's willing to throw that power on a regular basis, despite that it's expensive AND only has a 25% chance or so to affect the target. I was talking more about how the system is designed around Superheroes that do from 8d6 -14d6 Damage ( ie 40-70 pt powers). When you go below that and way above that the system has weaknesses of scaling. Mental Powers are just the most egregious when it comes to lack of scaling. GURPS has the same issue just concentrated at the bottom of the scale. It's designed for "normals" the System shows it's flaws when stretched to accomodate Superheroic Genre games.
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Post by CRTaylor on Mar 18, 2014 16:04:03 GMT
I think building mental powers around more of a transformation structure than a targeted EGO+x structure would be a better system. Instead of using dice and trying to "beat" a certain level, use dice that have a cost based around the desired effect, then overwhelm the target's Ego score.
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kravenkor
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"We're making a better world; all of them. Better worlds."
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Post by kravenkor on Mar 18, 2014 17:40:35 GMT
I wonder if Mind Control might be better as some type of "summon" type build; where both the target's EGO, and total character points - or at least points in powers the controlling character can have their thrall use - is figured in. Would seem to be a bit clunky of a solution, though, and again how many of the character points of the controlled target are really going to be used to benefit the controller? Hard to say "as a rule."
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Post by Thia Halmades on Mar 18, 2014 20:53:12 GMT
I had never contemplated Summon in lieu of Mind Control -- I have repurposed the MOCV/MDCV (love that change) values for Persona, which is a whole nother conversation (also, why aren't any of you reading my Persona Control Document and posting comments?! -- Urban Fantasy, go get it!) but I would think in certain games it does present a strong mechanical option that requires only a touch of handwavium, the GM in effect saying "I am using Summon Under Own Power to mean Mind Control for this campaign," and voila. I kind of like the idea, it would work really well for campaigns where you don't want to lob gobs of dice and have something significantly more stable and predictable.
Good call.
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Post by CRTaylor on Mar 19, 2014 14:13:45 GMT
Summoning for control is immensely expensive; you have to summon an exact person, not just "person" so there's a pretty big advantage. You want to summon a 350 point hero that's going to cost you way more points than you're going to be willing to spend or the GM will likely allow. And if you only want to nudge them toward something specific you just spent a ton of points for not a lot of return.
However the amicability structure is something worth considering as a concept. I don't care for the all-or-nothing way mind control etc works either.
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kravenkor
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Post by kravenkor on Mar 19, 2014 15:04:34 GMT
(also, why aren't any of you reading my Persona Control Document and posting comments?! -- Urban Fantasy, go get it!) Good call. Because Urban Fantasy is terrible? To each their own, but Persona is too close to an Anime Dating Sim for me. Had some guys pitching a "Teen Champions meets Persona" game and was... decidedly creeped out by it
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kravenkor
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Post by kravenkor on Mar 19, 2014 16:44:27 GMT
And don't feel too bad; few if any ever respond to my similar posts for Lostorum. :shrug:
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Hyper-Man
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Post by Hyper-Man on Mar 21, 2014 21:06:02 GMT
See this 5e version of a familiar Hero known for his ability to control animals for ideas.
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Post by Thia Halmades on Mar 22, 2014 20:52:47 GMT
(also, why aren't any of you reading my Persona Control Document and posting comments?! -- Urban Fantasy, go get it!) Good call. Because Urban Fantasy is terrible? To each their own, but Persona is too close to an Anime Dating Sim for me. Had some guys pitching a "Teen Champions meets Persona" game and was... decidedly creeped out by it Oh, oh, I actually don't care about your opinion on Urban Fantasy. I just want people to read the control document and comment on its structure, rules applications, etc. Doesn't matter if you're interested. If anything, I'd be curious to hear your opinions because it isn't your thing.
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Post by Tasha on Mar 22, 2014 21:14:58 GMT
And don't feel too bad; few if any ever respond to my similar posts for Lostorum. :shrug: Sorry, I am being pretty selective in what game worlds I delve into. I look more to outlines and Pitches. Pitch it like you would a movie. ie "StarWars/Serenity Mashup. The PC's are storied crewmembers on a tramp freighter who are trying to screw the Imperium, help the Alliance and keep flying.: It's selfish, but unless something grabs me I don't want to read it. I don't have the time or brainspace.
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kravenkor
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"We're making a better world; all of them. Better worlds."
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Post by kravenkor on Mar 28, 2014 17:25:06 GMT
Was not meant to be a complaint or cry for attention or anything; more just a sympathetic nod to a fellow world-builder and the difficulties in finding a "test audience."
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