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Post by kamarathin on Feb 19, 2014 22:57:24 GMT
How would you build this power?
Wild carnivorous beasts invade the character’s camp. During the attack, the character finds that he has the innate ability to command wild beasts (not monsters) to do his will (so long as it does not seriously risk the animal’s lives).
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Post by Chris Goodwin on Feb 19, 2014 23:25:21 GMT
Mind Control, vs. wild beasts, with the Telepathic command option (+1/4). Season to taste.
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kravenkor
Double Digit Master
"We're making a better world; all of them. Better worlds."
Posts: 92
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Post by kravenkor on Feb 20, 2014 16:12:01 GMT
Alternately, a summon with appropriate setup. Amicable / Slavishly loyal, arrives under own power?
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Post by kamarathin on Feb 20, 2014 19:01:22 GMT
It's not a summon, but definitely a mind control. Not sure how many dice would be appropriate.
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bluesguy
Double Digit Master
Just joined
Posts: 39
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Post by bluesguy on Feb 21, 2014 3:48:41 GMT
So if this is a normal animal (and you are playing 6e), I would guess that no animal is going to have an Ego higher than 5 or 8, and I would guess that getting +10 EGO would be enough to do his will without putting the animal at serious risk. That would mean at least 5 1/2d6 Mind Control + Telepathic command option as Chris mentioned, which would result in 19 points on an average roll. To be 100% sure you might bump it up to 7d6, which would on an average roll would result in 25 points. Plenty to do the mind control.
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Post by kamarathin on Feb 21, 2014 14:19:56 GMT
Gracias!
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Post by kamarathin on Feb 21, 2014 14:24:47 GMT
This is what I built:
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Post by CRTaylor on Feb 21, 2014 16:29:27 GMT
Summon works, its a very weird construct but it does the job. I built a "Geas" spell around summoning, but its VERY expensive.
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kravenkor
Double Digit Master
"We're making a better world; all of them. Better worlds."
Posts: 92
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Post by kravenkor on Feb 21, 2014 19:38:07 GMT
It's not a summon, but definitely a mind control. Not sure how many dice would be appropriate. Well, "build from effect." If the power includes the wild beasts arriving, to be controlled, then summon works. If the arrival of the beasts is merely an event which grants the power, mind control. But even then you could build as a summon if the intent of the power is for the character to be able to "have wild animals attack his foes." Determining if wild animals are around for the mind control to affect ends up as yet another die roll, or GM whim, etc. So it is all about the exact intent of the power. Were I the player in question, I'd want a summon, with arrives under own power - to avoid any discussion over whether or not there are animals present which I can control. Knowudimean?
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Post by kamarathin on Feb 22, 2014 3:24:52 GMT
I don't see this as being able to work without line of sight. I'll make sure to include that in the build.
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Post by indianajoe on Feb 23, 2014 14:38:47 GMT
That's a fairly large Limitation for something the power might not be able to do anyways. Most normal beasts have an EGO of 5 (HSB). The maximum roll on 5 1/2 d6 is 33, with an average of 19.5. You'll generally get an EGO+10 result (target will perform actions they wouldn't mind doing), but only get to EGO+20 (target will perform actions they are normally against doing) ~10% of the time. EGO+30 (target will undertake actions they are violently opposed to) is not happening. I would say that a non-aggressive animal would be violently opposed to initiating combat (under most circumstances), and might be opposed to standing and fighting instead of fleeing in self-defense. Even an aggressive animal would probably be opposed to initiating combat. A predator might be normally willing to attack its usual prey, but not anything else. (Conversely, a hungry predator might have to be commanded to not attack what it sees as prey.) So, in a nutshell, "Animal Cannot Be Commanded To Endanger Itself" is probably not worth -1. Capping the achievable effect at EGO+10 is probably worth - 1/4.
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Post by CRTaylor on Feb 23, 2014 15:51:59 GMT
I agree, as a GM I probably wouldn't give it more than a 1/4 limitation that; the dice aren't likely to be able to compel anything without a tiny ego and a vulnerability to do anything dangerous anyway.
On the other hand, this does bring up a concern about mind control: shouldn't it be cheaper to control creatures that are weaker than ones that are more powerful? In other words, doesn't the summon construct make more sense than the present one? If I can get a hummingbird to do absolutely anything I wish, that's not even remotely as useful as getting a dragon to do what its generally inclined to anyway. But the dragon one is a tenth the cost of the hummingbird control.
Seems like it should be more built around amicability and power level than just random dice and multiples of EGO. The mind control/mental illusions construct has always been poor in my mind. They either do nothing or are all-powerful, in practice.
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Post by kamarathin on Feb 24, 2014 20:01:02 GMT
Ah, yes, good point.
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Post by Thia Halmades on Mar 5, 2014 0:14:04 GMT
I'm curious: What is it the player can command the animals to do, and how specific/realistic are your animals? Frex, in Halliruch, animals are truly of animal intelligence. They are only interested in eating, sleeping, breeding, etc. Are your animals more of a "fantasy" animal? How big an animal can they control? And can they command them to attack? Command them to scout? Use them to pull information? What's the end goal?
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Post by Tasha on Mar 13, 2014 23:04:49 GMT
I agree, as a GM I probably wouldn't give it more than a 1/4 limitation that; the dice aren't likely to be able to compel anything without a tiny ego and a vulnerability to do anything dangerous anyway. On the other hand, this does bring up a concern about mind control: shouldn't it be cheaper to control creatures that are weaker than ones that are more powerful? In other words, doesn't the summon construct make more sense than the present one? If I can get a hummingbird to do absolutely anything I wish, that's not even remotely as useful as getting a dragon to do what its generally inclined to anyway. But the dragon one is a tenth the cost of the hummingbird control. Seems like it should be more built around amicability and power level than just random dice and multiples of EGO. The mind control/mental illusions construct has always been poor in my mind. They either do nothing or are all-powerful, in practice. Another of the many problematic systems in Hero that are really engineered for DC 8-14 and don't scale up or down very well. The original system of multiples of ego was even worse, at least that system scaled down well enough.
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