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Post by Tasha on Jun 11, 2014 7:43:47 GMT
From the comments and discussion on the Hero Email list, Fuzion failed because they gutted Hero and replaced it with another system that nobody liked; they took away all the elements that people appreciated about hero and replaced them with other elements. This isn't just my opinion, its expressly what people said exactly when they said "this is why I don't like Fuzion." It alienated the base of Hero players without creating a new customer base. And that's what radical changes to basic elements of the rules that new players don't have a problem with would do. The funny part of that, is that Fuzion IS hero with the math done slightly differently. I do love your assumption that it didn't create new customers. So you have any numbers on that or are you just assuming it. I am pretty sure that Mekton fans and Cyberpunk fans had a platform that allowed them to try Champions and also other games like Bubblegum Crisis, and Armored Trooper Votams. Also Fuzion allowed for the creation of the Dragonball Z RPG (don't know if that one ever made it to print, but I remember Mike Pondsmith talking about it in his booth at DunDraCon the year Champions New Millenium shipped. Fuzion wasn't perfect. It really needed more playtest outside R.Tal's and Hero's core group (if it was even playtested there). Again the Characteristics system wasn't perfect, but would have been better without Figured Characteristics. Having 2 kinds of character points was annoying. Killing attacks causing "hits" of damage was an interesting attempt the fix the issues Killing Attacks have in Hero, but wasn't quite the right solution. It was very clunky, and it made Stun damage less important feeling. The game hit, some hero grognards complained about it. Stirred up the community with conspiracy theories about how Fuzion was going to replace the core system. The complained about the "Image style and Anime style" artwork in the books. That they killed off all of the dross that was part of the Champions Universe up to that date. For once, there was a Champions Universe where the PC's were in the top hero teams. The Books were IMHO the MOST Accessible version of CU that has ever been published before or after. It's a game that catches you in it's narrative and makes you want to play.
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Post by Sketchpad on Jun 12, 2014 0:56:29 GMT
I really liked the C:NM universe even though I wasn't a huge fan of the system. In fact, when I used to run the CU, I always included some of the evolution that C:NM brought to the table.
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mhd
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by mhd on Jun 17, 2014 15:50:29 GMT
I'm not sure whether this counts as and advantage or drawback, but Fuzion was a *very* varied game. Just compare the Usagi Yojimbo game with Artesia. At its core you just had a simple task resolution mechanism, with the rest being quite exchangeable. By comparison, D20 had a much narrower range (even if you include Mutants & Masterminds).
So familiarity with one aspect didn't really help you all that much in a game that used different dials. But still, you *did* recognize the basic framework.
I wonder how far you could stretch HERO in either way.
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Post by CRTaylor on Aug 26, 2014 1:56:45 GMT
Its worth thinking about, mhd. I know you can dial up the complexity considerably by adding optional rules and taking into account every detail of combat. But you can dial down hero significantly by ignoring things like cover (or handwaving it), range modifiers, endurance, and using no optional rules.
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Post by tikiman on Feb 19, 2015 0:19:35 GMT
Its worth thinking about, mhd. I know you can dial up the complexity considerably by adding optional rules and taking into account every detail of combat. But you can dial down hero significantly by ignoring things like cover (or handwaving it), range modifiers, endurance, and using no optional rules. Oh, I have to do that because Knockback, range modifiers, cover, etc. are such a drag and make combat interminable. I would drop END as well except some character concepts make it important to know when a hero has used up his energy. I use 4th edition but have whited out the Comeliness line on the character sheet as it's pretty much a useless statistic anyway.
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Post by jamesgillen on Jan 15, 2016 4:09:43 GMT
From the comments and discussion on the Hero Email list, Fuzion failed because they gutted Hero and replaced it with another system that nobody liked; they took away all the elements that people appreciated about hero and replaced them with other elements. This isn't just my opinion, its expressly what people said exactly when they said "this is why I don't like Fuzion." It alienated the base of Hero players without creating a new customer base. And that's what radical changes to basic elements of the rules that new players don't have a problem with would do. The funny part of that, is that Fuzion IS hero with the math done slightly differently. I do love your assumption that it didn't create new customers. So you have any numbers on that or are you just assuming it. I am pretty sure that Mekton fans and Cyberpunk fans had a platform that allowed them to try Champions and also other games like Bubblegum Crisis, and Armored Trooper Votams. Also Fuzion allowed for the creation of the Dragonball Z RPG (don't know if that one ever made it to print, but I remember Mike Pondsmith talking about it in his booth at DunDraCon the year Champions New Millenium shipped. Fuzion wasn't perfect. It really needed more playtest outside R.Tal's and Hero's core group (if it was even playtested there). Again the Characteristics system wasn't perfect, but would have been better without Figured Characteristics. Having 2 kinds of character points was annoying. Killing attacks causing "hits" of damage was an interesting attempt the fix the issues Killing Attacks have in Hero, but wasn't quite the right solution. It was very clunky, and it made Stun damage less important feeling. The game hit, some hero grognards complained about it. Stirred up the community with conspiracy theories about how Fuzion was going to replace the core system. The complained about the "Image style and Anime style" artwork in the books. That they killed off all of the dross that was part of the Champions Universe up to that date. For once, there was a Champions Universe where the PC's were in the top hero teams. The Books were IMHO the MOST Accessible version of CU that has ever been published before or after. It's a game that catches you in it's narrative and makes you want to play. I'd say, contra ctaylor, that Fuzion didn't replace Hero System. I distinctly remember when New Millenium un-had me: When I looked for the Powers section and found a partial appendage that told me that for the rest of the material that should have been there, one had to use the rules presented as a conversion guide for powers from Champions 4th Edition. Which was fine if you had a book that was by that point out of print. Too bad, because some parts (like the roll-high difficulty system that everyone is using now) were good ideas. JG
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