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Post by docdemocracy on Aug 27, 2021 13:54:50 GMT
One of the things that majorly draws out an adventure in HERO is combat, even if, as I do, you set things so that people can be taken out with two or three good shots. Tried discussing on RPG.NET but little interest there...
Here is my premise: In Heroquest (now Questworlds) you can decide whether a contest between PCs and NPCs is narratively important. If not, you decide the contest with a single exchange of dice rolls. You then decide the consequences of a minor success or a major defeat. It should usually be no more than finding a clue or losing access to resources or picking up some injury or hindrance.
And a bit of expanding after a query from Fedifensor Fedifensor: Not sure about combat, but a skill contest would be determining who makes the skill roll by more. So, if one person is trying to sneak past a guard, the sneaker rolls Stealth (13-), and the guard rolls Perception (11-). If the sneaking person beats their target by 3 (rolling a 10) and the guard beats their target by 2 (rolling a 9), the sneaker wins. Because the difference is only 1 point, the person sneaking past the guard barely avoided being spotted, and the guard may be wary. If the margin had been 3 or more, the guard would have no clue anything was up.
Me: I agree, skill contests are easy. I often will tell a player, not that they have failed a roll but that it is likely to take them much longer than they want to spend, each point the roll was failed by pushing the time taken another step up the time chart.
What playing Heroquest taught me was that a combat is rarely about knocking out or killing your opponent. It is usually a means of accomplishing a goal. What I mean is, you were not trying to kill the guard, you were trying to gain access to the tower. The goal is often to the side of the action you are taking.
I was thinking of trying to find a way to utilise combat type information to create a pseudo skill contest. The problem is that there are so many factors out there.
Perhaps you choose one of them.
In the example of getting past the guard, you pit your lightning reflexes against his armoured head. If you succeed, you get to him fast enough to KO him before he sounds the alarm. If you fail, he gets off a shout before you KO him. If you fail by more than that, he shouts an alarm and you don't even manage to get in.
It would all be about framing the contest. It might even be easier in HERO because everything has a character point cost. The base roll would be 11. Your lightning reflexes (DEX 20) would add +4 as you spent 20 points on it. His armoured head (resistant defence) subtracts 3 as he spent 15 points on that. So your chance of success is 12 or less on 3D6.
In a superhero fight, the numbers would be bigger but you could probably work it out.
It would be fuzzier and a lot more narrative but it might make players focus more on the powers and minor, scene setting fights could be resolved in 20 minutes tops....
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Aug 28, 2021 2:06:08 GMT
First: Always good to hear from you, Sir! Second, not only do I like the idea, I tend to use something similar for skill v skill when it's PC v NPC-- based on the combat resolution system, too boot! Essentially, look at the opposing skills; subtract the smaller from the larger; add that amount to 11 if the acting character has the higher skill rating; subtract it from 11 if the acting character has the lower skill rating. Apply any situational modifiers, and acting character makes the roll, target number or less. As an example: PC has Concealment 12-. NPC has Concealment 14-. PC has hidden something under the floorboards of his rented room while he and the party slip into the village to see if they can sniff out their quarry. NPC has heard the party is carrying an item of interest, and hopes they have left it in their room. As the NPC is the "acting character" in this scenario, the roll is his. 14-12 = 2; 2+11 is 13. Modifiers include that he has a vague idea of what he is looking for, in terms of size and shape, so he has some idea immediately what places it might be stashed (that is, where it will and will not fit): +1. He is taking his time, as he believes the party will be out for at least a few hours, meaning he can be quite thorough: +1. He must operate very quietly, so as not to alert and of the other lodgers or the landlord to his presence: -1. So base roll is 13-; the applicable modifiers total +1, so a single roll of 14- and he will find the item of interest. Going around the other way, the same NPC has hidden a payment drop behind a loose stone in an old fireplace; the PC knows the payment is hidden somewhere in this kitchen, and wants to find it. 14-12 still equals 2, but as he is now the acting character, his target roll is 11-2, or 9 or less. The Player states his intentions-- where he is going to look, what sort of clues he thinks will help him narrow down the hiding place, etc. The fact that it is a small room with several cookpots and no closed cabinets helps the PC, etc-- at any rate, his target roll is (9 plus modifiers) or less: one roll and done. The same thing with differing skills works, so long as they are in opposition to each other. Using your example of Stealth v Perception: The PC is the acting character here, and 13-11=2 (because it's the night for 2, apparently), and his skill is the higher skill, so target number is (11+2 +applicable modifiers) or less. Not only does this yield a quick resolution without the need to make two rolls and compare "success levels," you have eliminated one roll entirely and can still determine the quality of the success or failure by counting levels, but you have opened yourself up for more exciting narration (should you desire it). Example: You have decided that since it is dark and the NPC is standing too close to a torch, that a modifier of +1 (because I just don't want to type another two right now ) is fitting. The PC's target number is 14. He rolls a seven! Now before, you had two rolls: If the PC rolled phenomenally well, you would have to narrate that, or at least bear it in mind (though I have found that Players _love_ to have narration of their incredible skill usage). Suppose the Guard just _barely_ failed his roll-- or worse! Suppose he, too, succeeded, but not by enough?! I won't bore you with examples, because at this point, I think all of us GMs have learned how to handle "Hmmm.... They both did well..." situations. Or the worst possible thing for the Player: he rolls a 3 and the guard rolls a 17. Sure; it's going to be one of those storied gaming memories because it's funny, but it sort of robs something from the Player, even if he doesn't admit it: He has a 1/2 percent chance to roll a 3. That's it. One out of two hundred rolls will be a three. What's the fun in executing a perfectly quieter-than-shadow, more-hidden-than-a-nun's-tits stealth maneuver only to notice that the guard had been actively throwing sand into his own eyes the entire time?! I find the one-roll skill v skill resolution opens things up for the GM to build tension when it's appropriate: why was the success only by a single digit? Was it because the heroic PC stepped on a cat then kicked a guinea hen? Or was it because even though the PC demonstrated a phantom-like mastery of his craft, the guard was especially alert and, in his desire to be seen as a hero, _desperately and actively searching_ for an intruder? That situation is now a bit more open to narrative interpretation, allowing the GM to increase or decrease tension as fits the story, the scenario, and-- dare I say this aloud....? Bah! Of course I do! This isn't the official board; folks don't get quite as pissy about having The Word From on High meddled with here--- The GM can more ably detail a moment so that the tension rises and falls as is appropriate based on the needs of the story, but also _the needs of the Players_. I didn't say the PCs; I said the Players. We're all GMs here. We know that Player absorption ebbs and wanes even through a single session. Here's a chance to spice things up a bit if the Players are on autopilot. Here's a chance to inject some good fortune or levity if the Players are a bit too tense or a bit too stressed about "the situation so far...." Holy cow! I barely made it! I rolled a fourteen _exactly_! Well actually, Fredrick the Brave, you really did screw up. Not only did you thump about for a solid minute after you slipped over the wall and got your foot wedge in the bucket, your flailing about resulted in you finally flinging the bucket free from your boot, and the entire party, eyes wide in terror, dove back into the shadows and readied their weapons as the bucket sailed through the air and crashed directly into the tin roof over the small well just off the road. Fortunately for you, even as your heart thrumped in your ears and your frozen body refused to budge for the briefest of instants, even as you dove for the shadows of the wall and reached for your throwing knife, you instantly recognized by his sloppy pose and his heavy lean against his polearm and the confused expression on his face as he blearily scanned the alleyway ninety degrees from your direction that this particular guard is, in fact, stone drunk, and trying very hard not fall asleep.... That sort of thing. You have the important details: One guy one; one guy lost; the degree of success. But this time you have one less roll, no hard and fast demands on how the situation must have gone. Best of all, at least to me, is that you have _zero_ ties. I have no opposition to ties, mind you, but I adopted this idea to speed things up just a bit when NPC interactions were required, and a dice-off is just another layer of slowing things down. Overall, I like it. I won't say that one is a favorite over the other, as _Players_ differ. Generally, I have found that this works better with either seasons Players (who are fine eliminating "extraneous" dice rolls and who, like the GM, are more interested in moving things along) or very young Players, who just assume that whatever you teach them is how it was meant to work. It doesn't work so well for new Players who aren't very young, simply because most new-to-RPG people know there are dice, and they want there to be lots of dicing. However, I have never considered the second part of your proposal: basing modifiers on points spent in certain Powers and Skills. That's a new one, and very interesting. I will have to give it some thought. I can tell you that currently, for "non-critical" encounters, I generally only worry about PC rolls, and let everything fall into place from there. The scenario your presented, for example, of a guard raising an alarm: The PC will make the appropriate skill roll-- whether it be Stealth, an Attack roll-- whatever it might be. If he is successful, then he is _successful_. He _did_ do thing thing in time to prevent the thing. If he is unsuccessful, then that: the alarm is sounded, etc. Still-- because it deserves a second acknowledgement-- you have an interesting idea.
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Post by docdemocracy on Aug 28, 2021 15:34:23 GMT
I do like players making as many rolls as possible, there is little need for GMs to roll dice.
Anything that helps move the action is a good thing. If this is just taking on the bouncer outside the club, then one dice roll us all it should take, a similar narrative resolution to the skill contests can then result.
I would like to be able to decide to resolve any contest with a single dice roll. Starting simple, Crusader needs to get Ankylosaur's new power grid overdrive before it is installed. There are only two Viper agents guarding it. Do you run a simple contest, or play it out phase by phase while the other three players sit and wait?
Or the Champions have decided to confront Firewing but first need to get past the automated defences of his base. Do you run a simple contest, using the results to determine the starting conditions of the final contest with Firewing (Do they get the drop on him?, do they get any hints on how to bypass defences? Do they use most of their charges? Etc) or do you run it phase by phase with hex based movement?
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Aug 28, 2021 23:48:21 GMT
For me, it really depends on the needs of the moment-- specifically, the needs of the Players. If they are itching for a quick fight, then we'll dice it out (referring to your second scenario, I mean). If they are itching to get into the base and on to Firewing, then simple combat die roll to take out the guards quickly. A specific "mook rule" I use is combos (based on a really old and short-lived "Pit Fighter" campaign; I'm not going into that here, but it was fun ). If you beat your attack roll by six points, you score a "combo." Apply your attack damage twice. If you beat your attack roll by 8, you get the combo and your opponent is CON-Stunned for his next Phase (if you opt to have a next Phase for him; if his STUN is low enough, I often just let him stagger and fall unconscious). If you roll a 3-- and that is also at least four less than you need to attack him successfully-- then he takes his lumps and gets knocked right out. Multiple opponents? Similarly handled, applying the Sweep rules this time (-2 for each subsequent opponent). The combos, CON-Stuns, etc apply as well. It's not _exactly_ a single die resolution, but it both shortens combat considerably against non story-critical opponents _and_ give the heroes a chance to look awesome. But as a quick example: four guards are stationed close together, two on each side of a checkpoint. Crusader decides he wants to sweep through these mook agents and get inside before the automated gate closes. He's going to Mook Sweep them--- the difference between Sweep and Mook Sweep is the application of the -2 penalty. It doesn't apply to everyone, but instead accumulates. Just keep watching. Crusader bursts forward from the shadows, moving full-tilt, and decides he's going to use his skill levels and STR to perform the famous Bruce Lee Dragon Kick, then leap into the midst of the guards swinging. The GM calculates the bonus and penalties, relevant CVs, etc, decides Crusader needs a 14- to hit the first guard. Now the thing is that, in the interest of speed things up, this number won't change: pick any guard for the opening shot, and he needs a 14-. Crusader rolls a 5. This gets good. Five is eight less than he needs: he hits, and scores a combo because he beat the roll by 6. He rolls his damage (between his STR, His Skill Levels, and because the GM declares that leaping into the fray is a move-by, Crusader can do 6d6 normal damage, so he rolls six dice. He won't roll damage dice again this round (remember we are looking to speed things up a bit). This damage is applied to his opponent twice (but not doubled! However, there is no reason you couldn't double it if you're really in a hurry) because combo-- a quick one-two smash, described and detailed anyway the Player or the GM (however you play your game) cares to detail it. Now if he had been intending to Sweep all four guards and this was to be treated as a regular combat, then he would need a 14- (2x4, because four guards at -2 each), or 6 or less to hit any (and every) one of them. But this is a Mook Sweep: he gets to hit the first guy on the normal value, the second guy on a 12-, the third guy on a 10-, and the fourth guy on an 8-. He rolled a 5, so he actually manages to get at least one lick on all of them! So the second guard was hit on a 12-, and Crusader's 5 means he rolled 7 less than he needed to roll; he scores a combo on the second guard as well! Take the results of the damage roll and apply them twice to this guard also. His 5 means he only hit the third guard by 5, but still-- he hit him. Apply the damage dice to him as well! No combo, but still-- a solid hit. He hit the third guard by 3, so apply the damage dice to him as well! ------------------------------ Now that's a Mook Sweep against trained agents. If he's going up against "normies" or street thugs, things go even faster: Hit by 4 to gain a combo; hit by six to gain an instant CON Stun; hit by 8 (or a natural 3, even if it's less than "hit by 8") to gain an instant KO. Taking the exact same numbers as from above: Mook one was hit by eight, meaning that he has been instantly KO'ed. But wait-- he was also hit by enough to score a combo! You are absolutely right! That "extra blow" rolls forward to the next guy! Mook 2 was hit by six, meaning a Combo _and_ a CON Stun. Crusader rolls his damage dice. Apply them once (for the second combo strike that rolled forward), twice(first part of the new combo), --- and _only_ of the Mook is still standing, apply the third(Second part of the new combo). If the first two hits drop the mook, then the second blow of that combo rolls forward to Mook 3 (Similarly, if the carried-over first strike dropped Mook 2, then the entire second combo carries over to Mook 2). If Mook 2 took all 3 hits and he's still standing, he's CON Stunned and very surprised. Mook 3 was hit by 4, meaning-- you guessed it! Combo! First, apply any combo strikes that rolled forward from previous Mooks. If the Mook is still standing, apply as much of the combo damage as possible until the Mook either drops, is CON-Stunned and the Player decides to turn his attention to someone else, or all strikes have been absorbed by the Mook. Mook 4 was hit by 3; not enough to gain a combo unless he has a strike or two remaining from previous combos. Apply the damage as appropriate and play out the effects. ------------------------- Two important notes about Mook Sweeps: At any point that a target has become CON-Stunned, the Player may opt to ignore that Character and apply any remaining strikes from combos against the next Mook. He doesn't _have_ to do this, but it is his option. When combos happen, CON-Stun (if not automatic) is determined by _totaling_ all combo STUN into a single number and comparing that the target's CON score. Now the second example (against realtively normal thugs) sounds pretty brutal, but maybe not the quick resolution you're looking for. Remember, though, that we used the CV from the trained agents in the first example just so we would be looking at the same numbers. Against "normies," odds are Crusader would have had an even higher initial target number, making the results of the Mook Sweep much more spectacular. Now all that being said-- I _know_ that this is _not_ the "single roll resolution" you are looking for, but it's something that has served me well for a very long time, and I am much more comfortable sharing one-off house rules on this board than I am on the other, so I thought I'd put it out there for you to consider. I won't lie: it doesn't speed things up a lot until you get used to using it, but once you have it firmly committed into your GM reflexes, non-critical combats go much, much faster as the heroes rain down Holy Terror upon the legions of evil, etc, etc, etc, and sprint onward, not even slowed by the pitiful resistance offered by these poor henchmen. Oh-- this isn't an important thing, really, but it's something to keep in mind: the Player need not declare a Mook Sweep (though he is welcome to, if the situation is appropriate); the GM declares one when it seems that the PC has encountered "the right sort" of opponent or opponents. Have fun!
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Post by CRTaylor on Aug 29, 2021 4:06:12 GMT
I tend to keep my agents low powered and low CV enough that the PCs have little problem hitting them. In fiction, when a hero misses a street thug or agent, that means something extraordinary happened. Heroes should almost never, ever miss low powered opponents. They should easily take one out, as well. This is something that modern movies get wrong a lot: the hero should mow through low end bad guys and struggle only against the main foe.
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Post by docdemocracy on Aug 29, 2021 11:02:52 GMT
I tend to keep my agents low powered and low CV enough that the PCs have little problem hitting them. In fiction, when a hero misses a street thug or agent, that means something extraordinary happened. Heroes should almost never, ever miss low powered opponents. They should easily take one out, as well. This is something that modern movies get wrong a lot: the hero should mow through low end bad guys and struggle only against the main foe. Good point Christopher. It annoys me in shows where the hero struggles against the street level thugs and then sees no real increase in difficulty with the main bad guy. However, if a hero should not miss a mook, is there any need to roll a dice for that. I am thinking that mooks in this scenario should be safe dressing. So Crusader is trying to reach the security door but it is behind a wall of mooks, the question should be, what skill is Crusader using to get to the door? Acrobatics? Intimidation? And what modifier do the mooks give to the skill. Taking out the mooks then becomes an exercise in narration than in dice rolling....
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Post by docdemocracy on Aug 29, 2021 11:12:03 GMT
For me, it really depends on the needs of the moment-- specifically, the needs of the Players. If they are itching for a quick fight, then we'll dice it out (referring to your second scenario, I mean). If they are itching to get into the base and on to Firewing, then simple combat die roll to take out the guards quickly. A specific "mook rule" I use is combos (based on a really old and short-lived "Pit Fighter" campaign; I'm not going into that here, but it was fun ). If you beat your attack roll by six points, you score a "combo." Apply your attack damage twice. If you beat your attack roll by 8, you get the combo and your opponent is CON-Stunned for his next Phase (if you opt to have a next Phase for him; if his STUN is low enough, I often just let him stagger and fall unconscious). If you roll a 3-- and that is also at least four less than you need to attack him successfully-- then he takes his lumps and gets knocked right out. Multiple opponents? Similarly handled, applying the Sweep rules this time (-2 for each subsequent opponent). The combos, CON-Stuns, etc apply as well. It's not _exactly_ a single die resolution, but it both shortens combat considerably against non story-critical opponents _and_ give the heroes a chance to look awesome. Nice. I think the fact we are both looking at ways to do this highlights the fact that HERO's core engine is 40 years old and has never been updated to deliver more modern options. I think they could do with a narrative HERO sourcebook, how to integrate a range of different options into your game to deliver a more narrative experience and when that might be worth doing. I think a few games "powered by HERO" would give the potential to experiment...
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Aug 29, 2021 21:24:13 GMT
Some time back I had considered reading through the Champions LARP to see what sort of resolution methods might be found in there, and if they were reasonably adaptable. I have, without exaggeration, made no less than seven starts at reading that book. I haven't found a book more adept at putting me to sleep within minutes since I took Advanced Microbiology back,in the 80s... I don't mean that to insult any particular person, but that book is easily,more of a slog than even the five 6e "core" books....
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Post by CRTaylor on Aug 30, 2021 0:01:07 GMT
Yeah that was something I focused on with Western Hero, attempting to make the rules and book more enjoyable to read, even at the risk of sounding goofy. It occurred to me while I was working on it that Hero books are written for GMs, and never for players. But players make up the great bulk of the gaming audience, and they need to read this stuff too.
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Post by docdemocracy on Aug 30, 2021 7:30:18 GMT
Some time back I had considered reading through the Champions LARP to see what sort of resolution methods might be foubd in there, and if they were reasonabky adaptable. I have, without exaggeration, made no less than seven starts at reading that book. I haven't found a book more adept at putting me to sleep within minutes since I took Advanced Microbiology back,in the 80s... I don't mean that to insult any particular person, but that book is easily,more of a slog than even the five 6e "core" books.... You took advanced mucrobiology? Never had you pinned as a scientist... :-) My doctorate is in microbiology....
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Aug 30, 2021 9:43:54 GMT
My goal throughout the first 2/3 of my life was to be a psychiatrist. I don't know what that requires in Europe, but in the US, it requires an MD before undertaking the psychiatric degree.
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Aug 31, 2021 3:21:19 GMT
There is (why is this font so huge?! Maybe its just the phone....) Anyway, there is another thing I do in games, but not all of them. Primarily it is for stealth attacks for ninjas, quick draw trick shots for cowboys, sword of lnife play from pirates, etc, etc. I call it "shtick," and that is exactly what it is: for a single point (though honestly, it could be given away free, but I charge a point and consider it a "maneuver" or sorts)-- Let me start over: For a single point, the Character may select a Schtick. Generally, this is a signature maneuver or attack that the character is not only particularly good with, but is so good he is famous for it (anyone taking a Schtick has an automatic Reputation 8- (does not count toward build points total) for his use of this Schtick. (More on this option later) He may raise that number, of course, and the difference in value (say he changes it to an 11-) will count toward his build points. A Character who opens with his Schtick will, in that opening maneuver, gain double STUN damage for that opening attack. (Yes: this counts for combo successes when doing Mook Sweeps: open with a Sctick, get double STUN. Score a combo, apply the doubled STUN twice). The Character is so good with this particular attack that he may, at any opportunity (not just the opening) trade BODY damage for STUN instead (to prevent abuse, this does not work the other way around). To do this, the Damage dice are rolled and Stun is counted. Reduce the total by all appropriate Defenses the target has. Count the BODY damage and apply any appropriate defenses against it. Any Body the makes it through the defenses may instead be converted to twice that Amiunt in STUN and added to the STUN damage. It is applied all at once for purposes of wound healing and determining CON-Stunning. Why does this exist? Because, like you, Sir, I find detailed blow-by-blow combat against mooks and city guards a huge waste of valuable game time, and because Players like to win dice contests. Combining the two yields yet another way to shorten the time spent dealing with low-tier iplonents and gives the Players a chance to demonstrate how awesome their characters are compared to the common folk. Why is it only a single point? Because the more members of a party that have it, the better it works with regard to shorteming combat. : So you are saying that my 4d6 bow of Slaying, which averages 14 STUN and 4 Body could possibly do more STUN still? Yes; why not? What about my 2d6 Kulling Attack sword? Sure; that, too! And the STUN multiplier for that? Well, we will let whoever is GMing decide that... For obvious reasons, it works better with Supers and with Killing Attacks, but with things like Pentrating (who doesnt have at least one bow with Penetrating?), it can be a little extra treat, too. Now about that Reputation thing... Oh, that? That's just a balancing option; you dont have to use it at all, if you dont like it. The idea was to give major villains something or an out without having to blanket state "does not work on major villains." You see, succeeding the reputation roll means that the opponent is well-aware of the character's skill with that one attack, and is extra vigilant against it. In other words, anyone who recognizes this character as the Man with Seven Swords or whatever is immune to the double-Stun effect of the opener (though the Body /STUN swap can still occur, if the GM wishes. Dont tell me how little additional STUN is actually gained; there is a reason it costs a point, and a reason I said it works better when several players have opted into it. HERO combat is a gane of attrition, and every extra point helps. Alternatively, I have run a few supers games using Schtick where the BODY was not reduced by defenses; it simply became extra STUN, added to the total STUN. If your games feature high defen see s, this may be the best option for you. Anyway, thought i'd offer you that one, too. (Note: murder hobos almost never choose a Schtick)
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Post by docdemocracy on Aug 31, 2021 6:32:42 GMT
The schtick is a great idea, I think I will steal that one...
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Aug 31, 2021 15:27:30 GMT
Go for it, Sir.
I would be quite honored.
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Sept 1, 2021 2:38:36 GMT
You know what? I am going to clean those up a bit now that I have a proper keyboard in front of me, and since there are examples above, I won't have to repeat them. House Bushido Mook Rules: (note that this is not even remotely an exhaustive list; this is simply the stuff up above cleaned up a bit for reference by anyone who stumbles in later.) Please note that all the items below come in two flavors. That is, there are two different thresholds. GMs may select the one that they prefer, or they may use both, selecting the one most appropriate to the current situation. The House Bushido group tends to use the more challenging versions to represent dealing with well-equipped, well-trained opponents who are still "below" the competency level of the heroes, and selects the less-challenging version for Supers dealing with run-of-the-mill "normals" such as policemen, gang members, etc. Combo: to represent the skill and power of the PC in regard to lesser-powered (agents, trained soldiers, etc) or "normals" (town guard, police officers, street gangs, armed thugs, or other "normies"), this house rule allows the PC to demonstrate his reflexes and combat edge by periodically allowing him to land a quick "one-two" punch (or other combination of two attacks-- please note that this was intended for hand-to-hand or melee fighting, but no one can stop you from applying it to ranged attacks-- you are the GM for your group; do what serves your needs ). Any attack roll that succeeds by six points or more results in a combo. The attacking character (presumably the PC, but again: GM's can rule that this applies to every character in the game if he so desires). The successful attacker rolls his damage dice. He will apply the damage as normal, but will apply the STUN a second time. This is _not_ doubling the STUN; the target's DEF will apply both times. (Again, if the GM wants to simply double the STUN, then by all means....). When determining if the opponent is CON-Stunned, add the STUN together as if it was a single attack. Combos are assumed to be the result of natural combat talent, reflexes, or training and do not use additional END. Players will pay only their normal END for a single attack, even if they score a combo. Combo V2: set the Combo Threshold to succeed the Attack Roll by 4 instead of by six. Designer's notes: the BODY is not applied twice as the Combo was created specifically to speed up combat resolution and to demonstrate that the Heroes are a "cut above" the typical man (or agent) on the street. CON-Stun and unconsciousness are, realistically, sufficient to end a combat. Killing the opponent is, at least within most "heroic" games, not a desirable way to hasten combat against city guards, common muggers, etc. Again: any GM taking inspiration from this idea is free to do what he wants with it. Adding the STUN together for the purposes of determining CON-Stunning means that DEF only applies once. Again, the idea behind this is to _speed up combat_. Realistically, a CON-Stunned character is out of combat, even if only briefly. Only the most ardent zealot or poorly-written mugger is going to continue a combat after being CON-Stunned; most will retreat as soon as they are able, understanding that they could just as easily have been killed while stunned. ---------------------------------------- Instant CON-Stun: The PC (or high-level, "Story-Critical" PC) delivers such a devastating blow that his opponent is instantly CON-Stunned. Any Attack Roll that succeeds by 8 points results in both a Combo (because it has succeeded by more than 6 by default) and in the target being CON-Stunned. GMs may have the attacker roll his damage and apply it as per the Combo rules, "fudging" the STUN damage if need-be, or he may, in the interest of expedience, assume that the attack dealt 1.5x(number of dice in Normal Attack) or 4x(Number of Dice in Killing Attack) in BODY damage and ten more points of STUN than necessary to CON-Stun the target. The GM may rule that the target is CON-Stunned for one Phase, 1/2d6 Phases, or ever how long he sees fit, really, but it shouldn't be more than 3 Phases, or there is no effective difference between a CON-Stun and a TKO. Alternatively, if the GM prefers the attacker to roll his damage, _and that damage is sufficient to CON-Stun the target without applying "the second blow" of the combo, _and_ there are other valid targets within reach of the attacking character, that second blow may be "rolled forward" to strike against a second opponent, _assuming that the initial Attack Roll would be sufficient to hit this second target under a -2 penalty. (See "Mook Sweep" for more on that). Instant CON-Stun V2: change the threshold number from "succeed by by 8" to "succeed by 6." Designer's notes: As before, this rule was created expressly to speed up combat but still provide a variety of results beyond "one hit and out," a Mook Rule that has been popular for years, but which, after having been in use for a couple of years, proved unsatisfying to our Players, who had begun to refer to combat with groups of low-level opponents as "bowling" in reference to simply knocking down groups of targets without much effort and the fact that bowling pins don't stand back up on their own. ----------------------------------------- Instant KO: Any Attack Roll that succeeds by 11 _or_ any Attack Roll of a natural "3," when that three is at least 9 points below the target number, results in a Combo that knocks the opponent out cold, reducing him to a negative Stun equal to -1x(REC+1). GM's may assume that the BODY Damage delivered is equal to 1.2x(dice in Normal Attack) or 4x(Dice in Killing Attack). Alternatively, the GM may have the attacking Character roll his damage dice and apply it as a per Combo rules. Should the first application of STUN render the opponent CON-Stunned or knocked out, the attacking Character may opt to have the second blow of his combo "roll forward" to another suitable target in range so long as his initial attack roll is sufficient to hit this target after assessing a -2 penalty. (See "Mook Sweep" for more details on this.) Instant KO v2: change the "succeeds by 11" threshold to "succeeds by 9." Change "when that three is at least 9 points below the target number" to "when that three is at least 7 points below the target number." Designer's notes: Even though Players eventually tired of "Mooks drop after X number of blows," they still wanted to demonstrate their awesomeness by periodically dropping lesser opponents with a single attack. Frankly, the GM wanted it, too, if only to hasten the resolution of minor combats. GMs are encouraged to assume that the combo caught the opponent off-guard or struck him in some heretofore unknown weak spot in his defenses or perhaps a nerve junction or glass jaw. ------------------------------------- Mook Sweep: A PC or high-end "Story Critical" NPC can, when facing groups of significantly less-powerful opponents such as common thugs and punks or even trained agents (depending on GM preference; some GMs will not wish for trained agents to be easily overwhelmed). The Mook Sweep is a natural extension of the Combo (above) and "rolling forward" any unnecessary attacks resulting from that combo, and is based (very loosely) on the "Sweep" maneuver from the HERO System rules books. Mook Sweeps are usually declared-- or at least offered-- by the GM, as he is the one person at the table who knows for certain if the opponents are "mooks" or important and powerful NPC combatants. Players may wish to declare a attempt to do a Mook Sweep (and in fact, in the interest of speeding up combat, GMs may wish to replace the HERO System Sweep rules with the rules presented here as Mook Sweep, if only because it is much more likely that multiple opponents will be struck), but if they attempt to do so against non-Mooks, things like Combo, Instant CON-Stun and Instant KO aren't going to work. After all, those are for Mooks. The basic Mook Sweep: The PC or high-level NPC wishes to engage a group of opponents in combat. The GM will determine the DCV assigned to the group and any modifiers to the initial attack roll. The DCV of the group can be determined one of two ways: the GM may decide to use the DCV of one particular target NPC and apply it to the entire group (usually the second-highest OCV in the group, but again: it's up to the GM) or he may choose to take an average of the available OCVs and apply that. This simulates the idea that the members of the group are simultaneously helped (the lower CV characters) or hindered (the higher CV characters) by the presence and "assistance" of the other characters. Once the defending CV has been determined, the attacking Character makes his Attack Roll and determines his "level of success," or, more commonly "how much did you make your attack by?" If the Attack Roll is a success, subtract the Attack Roll value from the Attack Roll target number and compare the results to the maneuvers above. Attacking Characters may score Combos, Instant CON-Stuns, and Instant KOs depending on how well the attacking Character rolled. In a declared Mook Sweep, any result of CON-Stun or Instant KO is assumed to have happened on the first blow of any Combo result. The attacking Character will roll his damage immediately. If he does not gain an Instant CON-Stun or Instant KO, apply the damage as per Combo and move to the next target Character. Reduce the target number by 2 and compare this number to the initial Attack Roll. If the result is a successful hit, and the attacking Character still has an unapplied Combo attack from the previous target, apply that attack (remember it is a second-strike attack, and therefore does not apply BODY) immediately. Check the "Level of Success" for Combos, Instant CON-Stuns, and Instant KO. If an Instant CON-Stun or IKO results, the Character will have earned a Combo by default. However, Mook Sweep assumes that the first strike is the strike that dropped the target Character. If the target was thus dropped by a carry-over attack from a prior combo, the attacking Character now has a full two-hit combo to roll to his next target. If no "Instant" result is rolled, and the damage from any second attack that may have carried over is not sufficient to result in a CON-Stun or unconsciousness, apply the first portion of the Combo. Remember that STUN from Combos is combined to check for CON-Stun. This includes and "rolled-forward" Combo strikes. Thus, if the attacker rolls forward a Combo blow to a second target, that STUN is combined with the STUN from the first strike of any additional Combos to check for CON-Stunning. If the target is not CON-Stunned or rendered unconscious, apply the second strike from the current Combo (if there was in fact a Combo). Combine the STUN from the three strikes to check for CON-Stunning. Reduce the target number by 2 and compare to the initial Attack Roll. If the Attack Roll is still sufficient to have succeeded, first apply the balance of any rolled-forward Combos and check for CON-Stun, then check for Combos, Instant CON-STUN (which, as before, means that the applied strike has resulted in CON-Stun, per Combo rules, and there is now a full Combo to carry forward), and IKO. If there is no Instant CON-Stun of IKO, apply the first then second (if needed) strikes, still using the first damage roll. Remember that only the "one" of any one-two Combo does BODY damage); remember to accumulate the total STUN damage to determine CON-Stun, and at any point if the target is CON-stunned and there is at least one strike remaining unapplied from a Combo that the attacking Character has the choice of applying that second strike to the current target or rolling it forward to the next target. Always remember that an attacking Character does not need to have a rolled-over strike from a Combo to continue the Mook Sweep. He need not CON-Stun his target to continue the Mook Sweep. However, he must CON-Stun or KO his target to carry the second blow from a combo forward to the next target. He may CON-Stun with an instant result or "the old fashioned way" through accumulated damage. The Mook Sweep stops either when the Character voluntarily stops it, when all targets declared targets at the start of the maneuver have been struck, or he misses a target. Keep in mind that the Target Number can, eventually, drop to less than 3, but that a roll of a natural 3 will automatically succeed. It will not be possible to score a Combo or any Instant result, obviously, but the Character may elect to try to score a strike against either a new target or one of the targets he has already attacked. Designer's notes: Mook Sweeps are a great way to speed up minor combats simply because the Attack Dice and the Damage Dice are rolled only once per Sweep and can be applied to multiple targets (or, should the Player prefer, repeatedly to the same Character or group of Characters. Because Mooks are considered to be slower and less skilled than PCs, Phase-tracking is a bit different when doing a Mook Sweep. Mook Sweeps are considered a single Attack Action, meaning that all this goes down in a single half-Phase (this did not used to be the case, but then the Sweep rules became kind of silly, and Multiple Attack came along, etc, etc, and well....). Alternatively, the GM may decide that this does not work in his game (in spite of the fact that a skilled and powerful Hero _should_ be able to wade through a sea of Mooks ). if this is the case, a good rule of thumb to follow is that any two Mooks can be attacked in a Half-Phase with the Mook Sweep, and that, so long as the Character is Mook Sweeping, he may use both of his Half Phases for Attack (Mook) Actions. Further, the attacking Character may use Held Phases or Abort up to two of his own Phases to continue a Mook Sweep. Again, this is in direct violation of the HERO System written rules, but at the end of the day, there is no way to significantly speed up minor combats _within_ those rules, so..... I've been out here longer than I planned on. I'm gonna call it a night.
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