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Post by CRTaylor on Jan 16, 2021 1:17:46 GMT
At some point in the future, I will be releasing the equivalent of the "Player's Handbook" for my Jolrhos Fantasy Hero setting. You know, races, house rules, combat tips, how to build a character, that kind of thing.
Initially I was thinking about doing a full writeup as if this was a separate, new game but with some of the changes in Hero policy and the work that it took to write up Western Hero which is enormously less complicated than a Fantasy Hero setting, I've decided to release just "here's what's different and how to use Fantasy Hero in this setting" and people will have to get Fantasy Hero Complete to use it properly.
Still at that I'm realizing that this is going to be a pretty enormous undertaking since the setting is quite lush and full, and it involves a lot of unique and special things to make it work. For example, in addition to the typical set of FH talents, there are several score new ones mainly designed to equalize build of combat and stealth types with magic. For example there are leadership talents that allow a character to buff friends or debuff enemies in combat, and stealth talents that let you move across loud or trapped areas safely, etc.
And I want to include tips from long-term Hero players for PCs to use, sort of like Goodman's tips in Champions I-III. Those were fun and actually really handy. Something I have noticed lacking in Hero is books targeting players. They're all GM books, basically and I want some to be straight to and for the players.
This will be a two-book set, sadly. I wanted to just use it and spells from The Fantasy Codex but I realized 3 things.
1) I want to restructure the Codex so its not generic but is only for my campaign
2) its too big and complicated, and I wanted to pare it down into a smaller, more targeted set of spells
3) the spell builds are sometimes screwy (sorry it was huge and took years to write, and was in several editions, so some got mixed up). Some of the math isn't kosher, so I'm doing rebuilds with Hero Designer to be sure. HD gets things wrong sometimes but its pretty reliable
4) because of this, I'll be able to release a HD pack with all the spells in it.
I figure the Player's Guide will have the bare bones without all the Hero speech and builds, and the Spell Book gives the guts to see how it was made (so spells in the PG look more like Talents).
And of course it will include all the "how the spell system works" stuff, with all the guts and crunchy stuff in the upcoming Master Guide for GMs.
Which means that the Fantasy Codex probably will be retired and go out of print once the Jolrhos Codex is out.
But that's another book to write so... if you've been waiting for this to come out, um, its gonna probably be a couple of years. In the interim I'll try to get out some modules and such to keep content on the shelf but this is a bit of a project. And even if I could pay someone else to do it, its like painting a picture; I can't really have anyone else do the work.
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Post by CRTaylor on Feb 6, 2021 15:52:53 GMT
Due to the work on Champions Begins, look for this in 2012.
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Post by CRTaylor on May 15, 2021 5:09:28 GMT
While I wait for reports from playtesting on Champions Begins, I've put that on the shelf other than a few coloring on characters. Instead I am focusing on building the Jolrhos Codex.
This book will be a bit different from The Fantasy Codex. Its going to have less "how to use the hero system to build spells" in it, but also its going to have a change in the spell builds. Instead of full builds with all the math, I'm building each spell in Hero Designer and am just going to have the description and the bare info without all the mods etc visible. This will not only save space, but make the book easier to read and use, and leave out the stuff players generally don't care about or need. The real crunchy Hero builds will be available in the HDC package, so GMs can see the full build if they want to.
Doing this has revealed a few errors in my Fantasy Codex builds. Because this was a project I'd been working on for about 12 years, some of the builds were still a little bit 5th edition and were a little messed up (duplicate limitations, for example). So I'm fixing a lot while I go and streamlining so there's not quite as many spells.
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Post by alcamtar on May 19, 2021 0:38:40 GMT
Curious about the changes in Hero policy you mentioned.
Also I like the idea of separating the "players view" of the a spell from its mechanical write-up. This is something I've done off and on and I think it's a great improvement to presentation of hero system materials.
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Post by CRTaylor on May 19, 2021 3:35:45 GMT
Last year they announced that they don't want all-in-one complete books that aren't Hero put out (so, like a campaign with all the rules in it) any more. They did so with a couple of games but have for some reason decided not to allow that any longer.
So the Player's Guide cannot be a full set of the rules, just house rules and variants that refer purchasers to, say, Fantasy Hero Complete
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Duke
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Post by Duke on May 20, 2021 2:14:51 GMT
Help me out, Christopher:
Does that mean that they don't want you or me or Tom or Dick or Harry doing it,
or does that mean that "one complete game" books like Lucha HERO, PS238, MHI, etc aren't going to be happening anymore? Because frankly, "one complete game" is the thing I like. Even back in 4e, I thought "totally self-sufficient system plus genre books by different people of varying opinion and ability" was really a bad idea to carry into the future.
Eighteen hundred pages of "core rules" later, and I feel it more than ever.
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Post by CRTaylor on May 22, 2021 16:54:38 GMT
I am not actually sure, it was just an announcement a while back. I should check back with Jason on it, although not having to rewrite 180 pages of rules again would be nice to skip. I am not really sure what people would prefer. It would be more convenient to have everything just in my book, but if people are already playing Fantasy Hero and just want a campaign setting, do they truly want the rules reprinted again?
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Duke
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Post by Duke on May 28, 2021 2:22:06 GMT
Well some things you have got to consider with the one-book approach: There are a million "optional rules" in the core system these days. If someone sneezed and it sounded a little bit like it might be half of a long-forgotten house rule, it made it into the rules as an option. Fantasy HERO 5e didn't really do a great job of narrowing down "appropriate" options to use or discard for a fantasy game. And why would it? It, too, was a generic, non-descript "here's a few dozen ways you can play Fantasy genre games with the rules in the other books" sort of affair. Fantasy HERO 6e managed to be ever more broad and therefore, ultimately, less useful as a reference book or how-to guide. Now look at the meager one-book offerings from the company: Lucha HERO, PS 238, MHI--- all of these were specific games for specific settings and the nailed down the appropriate rules options and tweaks that would, at least in the author's opinion, best convey the feel that the game was meant to deliver. With the current "here's the core rules and a book on why all these rules can be considered appropriate to the flavor of this genre" books we have now, it's entirely possible to drop super powers and atomic rockets into a Fantasy game and not really break any of the established genre parameters-- mostly because there aren't any. The modern genre books really boil down to "here's a list of words you should flavor your game with so it feels like you're in a specific genre." Hell, I just accidentally dropped superpowers into a Western thing I am working on for Chris! Had you done Western HERO as "here's a way to flavor your Champions game as a western" the way that the genre book approach has done, it wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. Short version: The one-book approach takes the headache of filtering through fourteen hundred pages of rules and forcing a GM to decide what is and isn't appropriate. If it doesn't fit in with the author's vision of what this particular game is, then it doesn't make the cut. Things that enhance the feel the author is striving to achieve _do_ make the cut. Shorter version: one-book games are actual _games_, and are ready to play as-is, without a whole lot of brain-busting to "set dials and switches." I know we tout that as a huge plus, but Christ! I'm sixty-one years old, work two jobs, and have to bust my hump just to find a day or two a month (if I get really lucky) just to _play_ a game! At that rate, I'd need a year or two just to set the dials and throw the switches! It's nuts. I don't think it did particularly well sales-wise, but of the more recent iterations of HERO System games, I hold Lucha HERO as a shining example of what a HERO System game should look like: there is nothing in there that doesn't drive home the idea and the feel of what it is meant to be. I don't know if you caught it, or were perhaps advised to include it, but even your Western HERO uses superheroes as examples in two, three places? Sure; for long-time players, it's a no-brainer, but ultimately, it's a distraction from what _your_ game-- Western HERO-- actually is. (You did a _great_ job with it, by the way, and when I find time to finish reading it (see above references about finding time to "game"), I'd like to ask you a list of questions for clarification / possible errata list, if that's okay with you.) Don't get me wrong: the way things have been going with the company lately, I not really _surprised_ that there is a mandate to eliminate one-book games, but I am _extremely_ disappointed.  |
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Post by alcamtar on May 28, 2021 11:42:30 GMT
Very well said.
I'm so done with "kitchen sink" games. They say brevity is the soul of wit, but the soul of "theme" or "flavor" is what you leave out. The more stuff they throw in the more stuff I have to wade through.
Fantasy hero is so bad now I don't even read it anymore; I bought both 5e and 6e. With 5e fantasy hero I just felt like it went on forever and had no point; I occasionally went there for an idea on how to do something but I usually just went with my own idea in the end. With 6e fantasy hero I didn't even look to it for ideas. I flipped through and looked at the pretty pictures and put it back on the shelf. Honestly when I want to reference fantasy hero I pull out 3e or 4e (or FHC) regardless of what edition I'm actually playing.
The original (4e?) Star Hero was small enough I could wrap my head around it. Gave me a clear vision for how to do a space game in Hero. Obviously it wasn't the only way to do a space game... But it was a starting point. I could look at it and say "oh I see how this works, how or why you did this or that." And then I can go do my own. I picked up Star Hero for 5e and it just wasn't any good. It was too much to completely internalize, and if I can't do that a game is useless to me. In that case I didn't go back to 4e Star Hero, I just decided not to use Hero for space games. Ugh.
I like Hero because I want to be creative. I don't need someone else to be creative for me... *I* want to do it. That's the whole fun of the system. Why bother with a meta system if you're going to give me formulas for everything? If I wanted the company to do all the work for me, I'd play GURPS. Steve presented every option he could think of as the One True Way. Again why do I need a meta system? It's like going back to school: "here let me solve this problem for you, now go and do it yourself just like I did it, and show all your work." Why am I doing this busywork if you already did it?
That may not be the intent, but that's what it feels like. I find it a little demeaning, it's not fun, and I don't have time for it. I feel like whoever is in charge of hero doesn't quite understand what hero is, or why people like it.
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Post by CRTaylor on May 29, 2021 14:21:22 GMT
Well I can check with Jason and see what he thinks. The problem for me with doing a book is that it means the thing is bigger and I already have put out three 400+ page books for the setting (Codex, Bestiary, Field Guide). I wanted to make a slimmer book for the Player's Book so it would feel more accessible. Although I was able to trim and streamline things down to around 75 pages for the character creation and rules in Western Hero. I suppose that's not too awful.
Because I'll need to do a Codex rebuild (which is turning out to be a better idea than I had anticipated -- unfortunately a bunch of the spell builds in the Codex were a mess because they were mixes of different editions that I didn't get edited out) that will be 2 books released for the players, then the GM book.
I agree with the excessive detail and complication that 5 and 6 Hero have brought about, and the problems that creates. Steve was trying to have answers and clarity for everything that might come up, but that means you end up with two gigantic tomes for the basic rule set, which nobody but demented Herophiles even consider buying. Some streamlining and cleaning up of that was definitely needed (Fantasy Hero Complete, Champions Complete).
But for me, the biggest flaw was the lack of "jump in and play" with a ready setting and adventures. That's part of why I liked the original Western Hero: it had everything, even a bestiary, as messed up as it was. You could take Western Hero and play TODAY. And if you didn't really care for the Deadwood campaign, well you can blow off the setting and just use the adventures or ignore that entirely and make up your own setting, but at least it was there for you.
So that's what I'm trying to do for Fantasy Hero: a full, ready-to-play setting that has everything a GM needs and all the stuff players want.
At the risk of going on a massive multi page rant, the biggest problem with ALL rules coming out for ALL games is that they are so GM-centric. They're about "here's how to run a game" rather than "here's how to play a game." At least some of the content, especially character creation etc, should be designed and pitched at players, so they draw you in, are easy to grab, and fun to use.
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Post by CRTaylor on Jun 5, 2021 0:15:26 GMT
This does bring up some issues though. If I have the full rule set in that means I'll need the powers/modifiers/power framework rules as well, because magic takes advantage of all these (as do monsters). That's another good 100 pages right there. Do I put the powers section in the Spell Book? That makes it even fatter, and I was planning on making the Codex side pretty slim by dumping all the stat builds and leaving those only in the Hero Designer files for hardcore Hero geeks. Plus there are little things I'd want to work on if I did that. Like the concept I had of making "Talent" type builds for common power structures such as Transfer (currently Drain+Aid in the 6th edition rules). To make Transfer I would need to work out what it would cost to make a basic "takes power from them and gives to me" build. Sounds simple, except Aid only enhances powers you already have. That's fine if you drain STR, but what if you have a Life Support Transfer? I take your ability to breathe water and give it to me! OK so Drain costs 10 points per d6 and has range by default, costing END each use of the instant attack power. Aid costs 6 points per d6, has no range, but costs END of each use of the instant standard power. Transfer then theoretically is 16 points per d6. But wait, there's more. - Aid is linked to Drain, so that's (-½)
- But Aid also in this instance only works on yourself, which is a (-1) limitation. Now Aid costs ~2 points per d6, but still has an active cost of 6 points.
- And of course, it can't Aid more than the drain roll, which is a potential modifier, but since both are d6 its (-¼) at most, if anything.
- But wait, Aid only can enhance abilities you already have, so it won't work on everything.
So how do you make a power that gives you another power? - You just buy the power as if you have it, link it to the Aid, and then put a limitation on it of "only grants active points equal to Drain roll -¼" which is easier to justify here, and might even be a bigger modifier since it has no roll and is merely limiting your average power granted to 3.5 points. Theoretically the power granted is 6 active points, since you can get up to 6 active points on a d6. But of course it has the linked which brings the cost down to around 4 points per d6.
- But then there's the fade, that has to be worth something, right? Maybe a (-¼) limitation for "loses power over time" somehow, maybe with a cost structure that is worth more the faster it fades
- Except the power doesn't behave like a regular power: its an instant that slowly goes away rather than a constant you pay END on regularly to maintain. So it probably has the "Costs END Only to Activate" (+½) advantage... except for powers that don't cost any END
This is part of why Transfer was busted apart in 6th edition; the other major reason being "what if I have a Transfer where I keep the power longer than it takes for the target to recover?" or vice versa. But even putting aside the different fade rates for now, you can see how complicated this becomes trying to build a reasonable price structure. Transfer handwaved all this and just said "15 points, it all works at once, you get a die roll". And honestly... it worked. That was good enough and expensive enough that you didn't see huge transfer builds (4d6 for a standard Champions campaign isn't exactly going to break the game). But with Talent builds, the 6th edition approach is to show your work; here's how Danger Sense works, here's how you get Speed Reading. I can't really do that with Transfer if I simply declare it to be 15 points. So... yeah. |
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Post by CRTaylor on Aug 24, 2021 23:09:09 GMT
Spell builds are almost completely done, and I've gotten most of the Bard Songs built. Once those are complete, then I have to do the priest rituals, then go over Paladin abilities.
Paladins are built a lot like the Ninja Hero martial arts builds, basically a martial arts package and talents you can take as a paladin. I have something similar for other groups but they are more broadly available.
If you thought Western Hero had a lot of talents... get ready. Jolrhos Fantasy Hero is packed with them. Why? Because they are quick, easy expressions of "class abilities" and tricks that characters can do, like "backstab" and "rally the troops". There are leadership talents and stealth talents and magic talents and more. Basically these are package abilities that people can select to craft their character shorthand.
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Duke
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Post by Duke on Aug 26, 2021 15:29:27 GMT
Christopher;
What of the Jolrhos material will be available on paper?
Thanks.
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Post by CRTaylor on Aug 26, 2021 18:30:45 GMT
Everything I have put out so far is in print on Lulu.com, but I am working on getting them out on DriveThruRPG as well. |
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Post by CRTaylor on Nov 25, 2021 23:53:07 GMT
Struggling a bit to really differentiate between the different races and cultures, to make them stand out without being Tolkien clones. My motto for Jolrhos is familiar, but unique so it doesn't feel like you have to learn a whole new fantasy language, but it feels fresh and interesting. But sometimes its a challenge. How do you re invent the elf so they are interesting but comfortable?
There are a lot of different elf cultures around, but the main ones are Perelen (mountain elves or "high" elves), Elencal (forest or "wood elves") and the wild elves who live to the far south. Perelen I've tried to make a blend of Egyptian fixation on burial and death, and Greek philosophical concepts. Elencal are smaller, more greenish, and standoffish, very shy and hiding in the forest, but deadly. But its the physical characteristics of "elf" that I've struggled with, so they aren't just "live a long time, great senses, run on top of snow" etc.
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