|
Post by CRTaylor on Apr 28, 2014 18:31:47 GMT
It just seems to me that when so many games offer this these days a codified way of doing it in Hero would be a bonus, for sales and ease of creating that kind of system for GMs.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Goodwin on Apr 28, 2014 18:54:29 GMT
The 6th edition Fantasy Hero book gives lots of ways to codify it, but leaves it to the GM to choose which ones to use for a given magic system. The various worked example magic systems in that book show how to use many of them.
|
|
|
Post by Thia Halmades on May 21, 2014 23:11:52 GMT
Well see, that's just it I'm not understanding WHY you are rejecting the very concept of a framework and say Hero can't do this. I will attempt to explain without going all grognard 'Thia Knows Best' on everyone. We have three basic frameworks in 6th: * The venerable and generally most useful Multi-Power, used to stack powers of a like type (Fire, Ice, Purple People Eater) into a set that gives the player flexibility without sacrificing all of their points outright. * The VPP, used when your powers are in a broad set, such as 'Magic' or 'Absorption' or 'New Gods.' * We lost the EC, but gained 'Unify' to create a similar effect. I miss the EC, despite that it was broken, I liked it, couldn't tell you why. I think the concept appealed. Anyway. Your proposal, the Skill Tree, is a very post 80s kind of concept, and requires a tremendous amount of front loading and design to get right, balance properly, and execute in a consistent manner. It's easy to say, from a HERO perspective, that the balance can be struck early on by limiting point caps, but as anyone worth their FREd knows, it's far more than just how many points something costs. It's total damage output, advantages, and the mechanics of the limitations that really start making powers operational.
When we build a framework, it exists to save points. Lots of them, with set caps of what you can buy and how many points it costs to create a Slot in that Framework. They work because the cost reduction is inherent. A Skill Tree has two structural issues:
1) The canonical assumption is that the powers are built in advance, otherwise, why need a tree at all? HERO can already do this by forcing people to expand their frameworks if they want more power, and the 'cost benefit' is realized in the structure itself. Again, this is more GM Aston-Martin than anything else.
2) What mechanic structure (outside of the Unify/EC) would really reduce the cost that hasn't already been contemplated and still retain the flavor in question?
PLUG APOLOGY: When I built Persona, I knew that I was looking at a set of powers that would need to be tightly wound in order to work because they'd have to be repeated. I also knew that I'd be creating Personas that grow in strength, and have levels of strength (ie, a Rank IV Sun Persona is generally more powerful than a Rank IV Empress, because the Sun is higher in the chain; but within its own rank, a Rank V Sun Persona is only slightly - somewhat more powerful than Rank IV).
I mention this because the structure is similar: You need Rank IV to get Rank V -- but it's purely a construction of the game, and not something I would build a foundation around. The only other way I can think to do is to purchase a few dozen independent MPs, each of which has the limitation "Advance in Order, -1/2," forcing anyone who buys it to purchase Rank I prior to II to III (ala the magic system of Dragon Age).
In summary: I don't think this carries enough utility to warrant the effort required to draft a whole new system when existing systems can be adapted easily. Does that answer your question?
|
|
|
Post by CRTaylor on May 22, 2014 2:10:05 GMT
Well see that's why I suggested working up a new framework; because none exists and the system doesn't presently represent the structure well. Sort of like before Champions III there wasn't anything that does what Power Pool did. It had to be a totally new framework with entirely new mechanics which Hero didn't DO before that point.
|
|
|
Post by Thia Halmades on May 22, 2014 16:58:09 GMT
It does do it. This is my point.
|
|
|
Post by Lucius on Mar 11, 2015 0:33:25 GMT
Defense Maneuver already works this way.
Lucius Alexander
the palindromedary says skills don't grow in trees
|
|
|
Post by CRTaylor on Mar 18, 2015 4:47:59 GMT
That's a good point, Defense Maneuver is a build sort of along these lines: it gets more powerful and you buy each part separately until you have it all.
|
|